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Continuing the Conversation with Deng Ming-Dao

Guest: Deng Ming-Dao (Daoist philosopher, author, and artist)

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Episode Overview

In this powerful continuation of Episode 143, hosts Jaye McElroy and Leta Herman dive deeper into their transformative conversation with renowned Daoist philosopher and artist Deng Ming-Dao. This episode explores the intersection of creativity, healing, and daily practice, offering profound insights for artists, healers, and anyone seeking to live more authentically.

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This episode is essential listening for artists, healers, and anyone interested in living a more creative, authentic life. The conversation bridges ancient Daoist wisdom with practical modern applications for reclaiming creativity and attention in our distracted world.

Key Topics Discussed

The Art of Listening to Inner Voices

• Distinguishing between inspiration and other internal chatter
• The importance of waiting and discernment in creative and healing processes
• How meditation creates space to reassess and clarify authentic inspiration

Trusting Your Inner Compass

• Why external validation (money, success) cannot replace inner knowing
• The courage to follow your heart despite societal pressures
• Self-cultivation as the ultimate measure of success

Reclaiming Your Attention

• How society has co-opted our natural capacity for attention
• The difference between being told what to focus on versus choosing your focus
• Practical steps to redirect attention from consumption to creation

Everyone is an Artist

• Why 99% of people have had their natural creativity “beaten out of them”
• The myth of talent versus the reality of daily practice
• Starting small: simple tools like pencil and paper, humming, or describing experiences

The Progression of Practice

• Why beginners should expect and embrace being “no good” initially
• The power of daily practice and incremental improvement
• Using constraints and limitations to stimulate creativity

Art as Healing

• How both artist and audience are transformed through creative expression
• The gift of art as a form of healing exchange
• Creating “messages in bottles” for future generations

The Spiritual Dimension of Art

• Art as a response to the world and inner experience
• The importance of not pandering to audiences
• How authentic expression naturally carries spiritual essence

Memorable Quotes

On Trusting Your Heart:

“If you trust your heart, if your heart tells you this is where you need to go, then that’s what you need to follow. Because no external rewards and no external rejection is going to be a guide for what you need to do in life.”

On Getting Started:

“It’s as simple as picking up a pencil and a piece of paper. It’s as simple as humming something. It’s as simple as saying, this just happened to me. How do I describe it?”

On Attention:

“We are completely capable of attention, but attention has been co-opted by our society. We have not been allowed to say we deserve attention for our own purposes.”

On Defining Art:

“Art is a response to the world. And from that, other people can see that shape [and] think about how they might want to respond to the world.”

Practical Takeaways

1. Start a Daily Practice: Get a sketchbook and write or draw in it every day, even if it’s “crap”
2. Examine Your Screen Time: Notice how much attention you give to others’ content versus your own creative expression
3. Embrace Beginner’s Mind: Allow yourself to be “no good” initially and focus on the process, not the outcome
4. Set Constraints: Use limitations to spark creativity (small canvases, limited time, simple materials)
5. Create Space for Reflection: Spend time looking at and contemplating your work, not just producing it

Resources Mentioned

• AlchemyLearningCenter.com – Hosts’ website with courses and resources
• New Book: “Cultivating the Thirteen Ghost Points” by the hosts
• The intersection of Daoist philosophy and creative practice
• The concept of the Nine Palaces and the Creativity/Children Palace

About the Guest

Deng Ming-Dao is an author, artist, and teacher. He is the author of: 365 Tao; Chronicles of Tao; Scholar Warrior; Everyday Tao; The Lunar Tao; The Living I Ching; Zen: The Art of Modern Eastern Cooking; and The Wisdom of the Tao, Every Journey Begins With a Single Step, and The Way of Heart and Beauty.

His books have been translated into a variety of European and Asian languages. 

Deng Ming-Dao has trained in Chinese martial arts since 1975. His teachers have come from Beijing, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and two Taoist mountains, Huashan and Wudangshan. He has been most involved with the internal systems of Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, and Taijiquan, and he has given many workshops to introduce Chinese martial arts and Taoist wellness techniques.

Episode Themes

• Creativity as Spiritual Practice
• Healing Through Art
• Attention as Sacred Resource
• Daily Practice as Transformation
• Authentic Expression vs. Commercial Art